A Former Rogan Guest: Yes, It's Time To Cancel Joe Rogan & Spotify
Take it from me: we need serious regulations on Spotify and to turn off Joe Rogan
I believe I am the first Joe Rogan guest to call for his removal from Spotify. This is somewhat surprising as I thought that maybe somebody else had beat me to it. But alas, they all rely on Rogan’s slavish audience which may or may not exist to sell books or promote shows which may or may not be worth reading or watching.
I’ve moved on from Rogan. But somehow they won’t let me go. Why is that?
About That Clip Of Me And Joe Rogan…
It was seven years ago and I honestly didn’t know who he was or what he would become. I had no business to promote, no book to hawk, but I operated under a stupid idea about how the world really operates. I operated under many of them, of which I am gradually ridding myself.
My friends inform me that there’s a clip of me discussing the MAOA gene with Rogan making the rounds. I haven't watched, and I feel like Adam Driver does — I get sickly when I watch old recordings of myself. I cringe just thinking about all the mistakes I made in my life. Don’t you?
But allow me to clarify my remarks that I have done before with the benefit of wisdom and time: Human beings are different from one another. These differences are substantial. They govern human beings. Behavior, intelligence, and personality are all highly heritable. Some families have different characteristics than others. Sometimes those characteristics were even immortalized into surnames: “Wright,” “Clarke,” “Smith,” “Carpenter,” based on their professions, or “Brown,” “Black,” “White” based upon some physical characteristics. A race is an extension of a family. As families are different from one another, so does it logically follow that races will also be different. Different is, of course, not deficient and there’s a whole body of philosophy about how you can’t get an “ought” from an “is.”
What is my philosophy? I support human biodiversity for the same reason that I support biodiversity generally. I believe in being a custodian of all the earth’s largesse. I wrote about these ideas not so long ago when I created Traitwell.
Unlike 23AndMe.com or Ancestry.com, or really much of Silicon Valley, Traitwell is proudly not Chinese.
This is why I started the company.
We have a lot of ideas that might well be considered zany at Traitwell but all interesting ideas start out as day dreams or nutty ideas, don’t they?
We’ve begun the process of collecting DNA from the public through our Educational Attainment app. We sincerely thank you for the efforts you’ve made in sharing your precious genetic data with us. Please continue to share our work on social media and with family and friends. This Educational Attainment app, and others like it, will get better in time as we gather still more genetic data and the cost of sequencing goes down.
You might well ask: What’s this all going toward?
We believe in sequencing every carbon based life form, starting with humans and working our way down the animal and plant kingdom.
We take on this obligation because we believe in stewardship, not exploitation, and because we celebrate the diversity of all of life.
And yes, that includes the deceased, whose genetic sequence combined with their cause of death, may well prolong the lives of the living. Longevity does seem to be heritable, after all.
Now I know a lot more about genetics than I did in 2015. So does everyone. This is called scientific progress. The evidence about the MAOA gene and violence is complicated but I was right then (though I didn't express myself well). For that, I’m sorry. I’m more of a writer and doer than a talker.
I may or may not be right on that particular subject, but it’s got little to do with what I have said or have to say on a massive number of topics.
The desire to shut down the American discussion of genetics is also interesting when you see the other countries investing in genetics. I’ve written about these issues elsewhere. (We will explore the Chinese ties to the Resistance in subsequent posts, probably after I address the Chinese ties to the GOP.)
It’s mighty interesting that the Chinese and Russian-backed Huffington Post editor is smearing me now.
Could it be that they know I’m getting close to routing their foreign money from their properties? My libel case against them is winding its way through the courts.
It’s not a coincidence that this is the same reporter who smeared me for merely talking to members of Congress about genetics.
I have not been deterred. I am an investor in at least six genetics companies in addition to being a co-founder and CEO of Traitwell.com. I’m proud to invest in companies that do business with the U.S. government (and allied governments) and wish that my negative reputation didn’t harm those companies or my other ideas from getting to a broader audience. Often I give my ideas to others, uncredited, and even help others write books or blog posts. I want my ideas to take over the world and as I get older it doesn’t much bother me who claims them as their own.
From my friends in law enforcement, I’ve heard that my controversial past has been weaponized by foreign actors precisely to limit these companies’ successes and to harm America. I find this ghastly.
Had we followed genetics and not Big Pharma I believe that a lot more people would be alive today. Am I right? I couldn’t say.
I am not in a position to respond to a lot of the attacks against me. In point of fact you can’t find my show on Spotify. (It was deleted long ago.)
Nor can I respond to the mischaracterizations of my views on Twitter because I am banned for life from Twitter for reasons that have never been articulated despite a lawsuit. (Apparently Dick Costolo just decided one day and that was that.)
The likely explanation is because I called out #BlackLivesMatter’s DeRay Mckesson for encouraging riots… in 2015. To be charitable some protests against the police are warranted but they have to be peaceful and not funded by foreign agitators. I have a tendency to be ahead of the curve, in ways good and bad. Those who have followed my career know this well. Watch this space. The movement is already starting to come undone if these reports are true.
Nevertheless the purported purpose of my clip is to show that Rogan is a racist for platforming me. It won’t work, but I get it. Happy to be that stray bullet that fells the Roganistas, I suppose.
Indeed if I have to take it on the reputational chin to deplatform Rogan, I’m willing to do it. I’ll take one for the team. I always do. So what’s one more?
But one thing I will not do is stop my work or stop serving my country. And that starts with Joe Rogan, whose show I should never have been on. I regret it immensely.
I asked Rogan to remove my show a few years ago or for the opportunity to come back on and to correct my mistaken views. He refused out right. I think he got the shock jock shtick he wanted and that was that. On to the next. I feel a bit like how I imagine some young women must feel who were duped into pornography. I feel gross about the whole thing. And let’s be real: Joe Rogan is an informational pornographer.
Ideally I’d like to sue Rogan or Spotify or Twitter to remove my likeness altogether. After all, they’ve deleted my show so presumably, the intellectual property exists in the ether? I don’t know. “Resistance” Twitter is clearly getting riled up by bad actors against me now to try to discredit my truth-telling. But I won’t be dissuaded. I’m busy doing my thing.
Spotify needs to do an independent investigation about the foreign influence on the platform and crimes Joe Rogan may have committed.
I don’t have the time to listen to three hour or four-hour podcasts. Nor do I think many of the people who do “listen” to Joe Rogan’s show are actually real. I think there’s a concerted effort to manipulate the podcast charts to elevate fringe or insane views which harm the United States. This fraud distorts the public conversation and can even be used to launder money, as I suspect has happened with Joe.
A few weeks back Joe Rogan admitted to Tim Dillon helping a friend get $25,000 to have another person on the podcast. He says it’s a one-time thing and he wouldn’t disclose who this person is. Does Rogan do this often? How do we know?
Paying people to promote certain things without disclosing it is a crime, under US law. It’s called payola and it’s a common mob tactic. Payola is the illegal practice of paying a commercial radio station to play a song without the station disclosing the payment. Under federal law a radio station must disclose songs they were paid to play on the air as sponsored airtime.
Why doesn’t payola apply to podcasting? Could it be that podcasting is just a way around this?
I’ve come to believe that much of the tech industry falls under mobbish activities dressed up as tech. I think we can blame Reid Hoffman and his pal Jeffrey Epstein for much of this behavior.
The mob often used stand-up comedy to move money and there’s some evidence that the mob even invented stand-up comedy.
Here’s the mob history.
Back in the 40's, according to comedy historian Kliph Nesteroff, "nine out of 10 venues that stand-up comedians would play were controlled or owned by the mob." Mobs also controlled boxing rackets where reliable fighters were deemed "stand-up fighters." Those titles were also used for other people, including comedians. Thus, the birth of a "stand-up comedian."
Fighters and comedians. Huh. That seems very Roganesque.
Is Joe Rogan a mob front? I wonder… He does seem to push drugs and immoral behavior, and I have heard rumors that his family is connected to the mob. (We are both from Boston and my sources are good there.)
His wife’s story, for example, where she worked a corporate job and later as a cocktail waitress makes no sense.
But how does the front stuff actually work?
Well, you have inflated numbers being used to generate advertising dollars based upon a fraud and then you get a pay off from Chinese triad money to own your con at the end. How nice! You can even call it a tech company.
In this way, Donald Trump’s purchase of Les Wexner’s Palm Beach home and then resale to an odd Russian oligarch who does plenty of business with China can be seen the same way.
So I wonder: Is podcasting a mob activity? Or is it far worse? It sure does seem dominated by foreign actors trying to psychologically subvert America and Americans. And it’s doubtful that many of the podcasters are earning a living wage from that activity alone. (For what it’s worth I happen to think that’s true of Substack, too, but I dare not criticize Substack on Substack!)
Isn’t it weird that Rogan kept pushing drugs as California descended into chaos?
Isn’t it weird that Rogan celebrates Chinese technology like their camera phones or Russian vaccines but condemns American Big Pharma? For what it’s worth, I believe vaccination is a private matter between you and your doctor but it sure is weird what he pushes as its replacement. Ivermectin? Really?
How should we take Rogan’s views that the moon landing never happened? Or his obsession with 9-11 conspiracy films? Or his repeated interviews on the topic of UFOs? The effect of these curiosities is to undermine key American achievements — NASA and the Air Force, chief among them.
Why did Rogan so readily condemn the US military in his memorable exchange with me? Seems suspicious.
We haven’t even really examined his guests. Who does Lex Fridman really work for? We’ve probed Eric Weinstein’s weird foreign connections already. What of Glenn Greenwald who is in the non-extradition country of Brazil after myriad odd behavior in New York?
And what do we make of Spotify, which is owned in large measure by Chinese interests?
It’s quite telling to compare what China bans in its own country versus what trends on TikTok, isn’t it?
Yes, it’s still a good idea to ban TikTok and no, I don’t care if the kids are upset. It’s time to be an adult and ban the thing before it does any more harm to our children or ourselves.
We must rid ourselves of spiritual opium just as readily as we rid the country of real opium. And what do you know? Both of those things were Made in China.
How I came to be on Joe Rogan’s show
This is embarrassing to admit, but I am somewhat pop culture illiterate. I don’t really listen to pop music. (My girlfriend is a classical music aficionado and a cellist.)
Nor do I watch TV or subscribe to any streaming services. I like old documentaries, usually from the BBC, which doesn’t have a Netflix-like analogue insofar as I can tell. If you have an old documentary that’s worth watching please do recommend it.
I’m not exactly the target demographic for much of what’s on the Internet.
To the extent I listen to the radio it is NPR. I listen to things that friends send me and for the most part read a lot of old books, some of which I download legally, but most of which I get handed to me or which I check out from the local library. I own few possessions — certainly not a $14 million mansion in Austin — and I buy my clothes at Uniqlo or Target. Nothing material really interests me all that much.
Once upon a time I tried to keep up, but many things passed me by. I’m okay with that. The pandemic killed whatever FOMO I might have had. I’m getting old. I like a cup of tea and a good book.
I wasn’t always this way. Once I wanted to impress my wife and make my mark on the world, I did the latter but not the former, and now she’s my ex-wife. We move on. The pain endures.
As I started breaking more and more stories on my blog and on Twitter I became more and more sought after. I got invited to dinner parties, events, and shindigs, most of which I turned down. But I received an email from the Joe Rogan Experience, and knowing nothing about him, I asked my then wife if I should go on. She was apparently a fan and thought it pretty cool. Joe gave me a mug and she liked that mug and so she liked me, at least for a time.
When your wife wants you out of the house you get out of the house and so I, not knowing who Joe Rogan was, descended upon Rogan’s man cave somewhere in the Los Angeles Valley. Rogan was cool, as in the temperature, but it did strike me a bit as a case of arrested development that’s all too common in California.
My then wife told me he had been on Fear Factor, a TV show which I attempted to watch but found mostly too grotesque. I don’t go for that shock jock stuff. It isn’t me and when I tried to copy it it became apparent.
Nor am I keen on what John McCain once called “human cock fighting.” Having been both molested and beaten as a child I wince instinctively when I see violence and I thoroughly oppose its glorification. I am no pacifist and when violence is called for it should be meted out quickly and justly.
Rogan goes on at length about how he opposes men fighting women — as if this makes it all the rest of the barbarism of man vs man or woman against woman justifiable. There’s an awful lot of chatter about transpeople for how small a percentage they are of the population. Could it be that the culture wars are but a cynical play to divide us?
Nor do I pay much attention to standup, much of which I’m told isn't all that funny anyway. And like a normal person I prefer the company of friends to drunk strangers when telling or receiving jokes. I try to avoid places where people are doing bad things lest I do them too.
So no, I didn’t know who Joe Rogan was when I agreed to sit down with him seven years ago.
Joe Rogan wasn’t as famous as he would become, nor was I as notorious. I’ve evolved, as they say. Having sobered up I can say I’ve changed my mind on a whole bunch of topics. This is what your thirties look like. You chin stroke. You ponder. You come to regret and envy your twenties. I miss them terribly but they taught me much.
Looking back at it I used to look upon a lot of these manosphere people as men to admire but I’ve come to think that that’s another intellectual cul de sac, designed to distract from the task at hand. I am somewhat embarrassed by the attention I paid any of this nonsense. I allowed other people to determine my own self worth, including those closest to me.
Real manliness comes not from talking about what weird diets you are on, or doing live commentary while two other men fight, or from making jokes to drunks.
Real manliness comes from doing your duty, alone if necessary, and doing it well.
It’s the sort of thing that’s best encapsulated in the poem, “If” by Rudyard Kipling. I read that poem every morning.
I know all too well what it is like to have the truths I’ve spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools. But I believe in the essential goodness of good people and I know that they’ll find me too if I light the torch. They always have.
Why Rogan Has To Go
I subscribe more or less to Socrates’s view about the inherent dangers of writing which I might expand to recording generally. There is, of course, a deep irony that we only know who Socrates is because others sought to record down his ideas. But sometimes a conversation ought to be ephemeral. It’s intended audience ought to be limited to those in the room. Sometimes it’s best not to say everything you think. I struggle with this mightily.
As a Christian — I’m not preachy — I once thought that when two or more are gathered in my name I am among thee and that I had a duty to proclaim the truth widely. I believed that people would see my heart or the spirit under which I operate or look upon the totality of my works or listen to my many friends, powerful and not who have come to my aid.
I no longer believe that. Or, if I do, I’m not so sure I’m willing to be martyred for it. The lessons of modernity have one teaching: I’m not so sure that everyone wants the truth. I am very sure they want to be entertained.
Sometimes people prefer to gawk. Sometimes they prefer the spectacle to the substance. Sometimes they want witches to burn. I’m under no obligation to hand them the match to my own funeral pyre. I don’t have to accept their frame. I can live as I want and there’s joy in that.
Still, we live in a mass society and there’s arguably no better way to get your ideas out than a podcast. This is the seduction of podcasting and its fatal flaw.
We all intuitively understand that that some conversations are meant for your lover, your priest, your parent, your five-year-old, or your God. It’s quite challenging to be consistent across all these dimensions and no one really tries. We’re human and we contain multitudes.
But the Internet is what Jeff Bezos once called a “nuance destruction machine.” There is no past or future — just a perpetual present. The guy who sells you your used sports car knows about you from Rogan. So too does the lady checking out your boxer briefs at Target. You aren’t meant to be famous to so many people. You’re reminded of that bit from Bill Murray — those who want to be rich and famous should try just being rich.
I regret showing up on Joe Rogan’s podcast and I join the many people who are calling for Spotify to fire him. I’d go one further — I think it’s time to cancel Spotify altogether. It’s bad for artists. It’s bad for the truth and it’s bad for America.
I should have known not to associate with Joe Rogan.
Looking back on it, I should have known that associating with Joe Rogan wasn’t good for me. I should have googled him. Had I, I would have realized that some of the things he has said are pretty darn near indefensible and worse yet, ungentlemanly.
I suspect Rogan might be gay, actually, and that that’s why he’s always trying to get so much attention for himself. Heterosexual men don’t really do all the preening he does.
There’s a lot here in this piece from Vanity Fair in 2009 — a lot of hate. The bold is the interviewer while the normal text is Rogan.
Rogan wouldn’t be alone here. A lot of standup comedians used fiery language before they made it big and then grew tamer once they had something to lose. Amy Schumer, niece of Senator Chuck Schumer, is quite the sellout. Then again, so is her uncle. Maybe these things run in families.
Curiously these comedians are allowed their sins and even get to walk them back. Why can’t the younger generations? Because everything is recorded, of course. The permanent record is etched right around the time you are your most hormonal or lonely or weak. It’s gross that a nation does this to its kids.
Still, it’s worth seeing how Rogan was on his way up. What does it say about a company that rewards Rogan with $100m? Could this be a pay off? It feels like it is.
I’ve slightly edited the transcript here. Rogan used the N-word, C-word and F-word with gusto.
Inner peace is a risky emotional state for a comedian. Doesn’t your job require a healthy amount of cynicism and self-loathing? You don’t want to get on stage and say, “Everything’s grooooovy.”
There’s still plenty of shit to talk about. In my opinion, the best comedy is just looking at life and going “What the fuck?” I try not to direct my comedy at real people. I get mad at animals.
You do what now?
I once called a dog a fa**ot in my act. I got a lot of shit for that.
In what ways was the dog a fa**ot?
It was a joke about that anti-drug commercial, where the girl comes home from school and her dog starts talking to her. I called that dog a fa**ot. But that’s as angry as I get.
And you got some criticism for questioning the dog’s sexual orientation?
I just had a few people tell me it was inappropriate. Fa**ot is becoming the new N-word. I’m not buying it. You can go fuck yourself. I’m sorry, this is stupid. We already have one dumb word that only one group of people is allowed to use, and I think that’s bizarre. I had a gay guy tell me that the word fa**ot is like the word n-word and that gay guys can call each other fa**ot but that straight people can’t call a gay guy a fa**ot or use the word fa**ot. A guy actually said that to me.
That’s weird.
I was like, “Come on, man, you can’t tell people what to do.” He said, “How would you feel if somebody called you fa**ot?” And I said, I think it’s funny. My friends call me fa**ot all the time. Not only that, my birthday cake for my 40th birthday said “Happy Birthday Fa**ot !” It doesn’t mean that I’m a homophobe, that’s nonsense. I’m a huge supportive of gay marriage, and I’ve got a whole bunch of jokes in my act about gay Republicans who are hypocrites. I’m not accepting any more taboo words. You can kiss my ass. Under the guise of being politically correct, they’re just throwing more poison out there into the vernacular. We don’t need taboo words. We need less taboos. We need to realize that all expression is just trying to let other people know how you’re thinking. We’re trying to express ourselves, we’re trying to communicate.
Maybe so. But I still wouldn’t walk into a Wu-Tang Clan concert and shout out “Where my niggas at?”
Yeah, you’re right, man. Unless you’re heavily armed. You can’t use it. It’s so ingrained in our ridiculous culture, these bad words. I guess there’s an argument that some people use these words as a hate slur. In that way, I see your point. But that’s not the case with other people. I know people who use fa**ot and it has absolutely nothing to do with being gay. Someone drops their keys down a sewer hole and you’d shout at them, “Oh, you fa**ot!” But you don’t mean he’s gay. You just mean he’s a fucking dork.
Fa**ot loses his keys, you gotta call him a fa**ot.
I’d agree that words can be poorly chosen. You can refer to your wife’s c-word and she’ll say “What the fuck is that? That sounds disgusting!” That’s just bad communication. But listen, there are c-words in this world, and occasionally that word needs to be used. Sarah Palin is a dumb c-word! There’s no better way to describe her. Elizabeth Hasselbeck. That’s a dumb c-word. You ever watch that chick on The View, the crazy right-wing blonde one? That’s a c-word!
I found a picture of that very cake. I post it here so you can know what kind of person Rogan is. He thought was funny.
Real men don’t push life wrecking and nation wrecking behavior. They don’t encourage drug use.
They promote good things and good people. What if Joe Rogan pushed good, wholesome things?
What if he decided to be a force for good?
What if the tech industry which enables him and defends him actually built technology that made America great?
What goes for Joe Rogan goes for the lot of tech industry and all those newly rich men. No, it’s not too late to turn your money toward the good. It’s not too late to change your life and dedicate it to something positive.
I recommend more poetry and less podcasting. If it was good enough for the ancients it’ll work for you too. If you let it. (You may have to put down the DMT or mushrooms to get there, though.)
I loved Longfellow as a younger man. I used to pass by his house on Brattle Street when I visited my father at work. Before it was Longfellow’s house it served General George Washington’s headquarters. Who doesn’t love a country where the headquarters of generals become the homes of poets?
Here’s a snippet from “A Psalm of Life” by Henry Longfellow.
In the world's broad field of battle,
In the bivouac of Life,
Be not like dumb, driven cattle!
Be a hero in the strife!
Trust no Future, howe'er pleasant!
Let the dead Past bury its dead!
Act,—act in the living Present!
Heart within, and God o'erhead!
Lives of great men all remind us
We can make our lives sublime,
And, departing, leave behind us
Footprints on the sands of time;
Footprints, that perhaps another,
Sailing o'er life's solemn main,
A forlorn and shipwrecked brother,
Seeing, shall take heart again.
Let us, then, be up and doing,
With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing,
Learn to labor and to wait.
“Be a hero in the strife!”
A hero, we know, can come in any form. This week it is Neil Young. Turn up his music and dance knowing that at least one of our artists gets it.
Next week it might be you. I believe there’s a hero in all of us, including Joe Rogan. To do the right thing all he has to do is reflect on all the pain he’s causing. And stop causing it.
Maybe when he’s had some time to reflect on the harms, away from all the gizmos and ganja, he will do the right thing and quit voluntarily.
Until then let’s heal the divisions that plague us. Please join me in working toward that goal, united in common purpose.
E pluribus unum, and we mean it!
I’ll let Neil have the last word. He’s earned it.
Can we get it together
Can we still stand side by side
Can we make it last Like a musical ride?
Sometime it's distorted
Not clear to you
Sometimes the beauty of love
Just comes ringin' through.
For someone who doesn't watch modern movies or media, you were able to reference Gladiator pretty easily. You come off self righteous and lame.
You really need to rethink your take on shutting down Rogan. I can't stand the guy, but when you promote censorship you kill discourse.